05 June 2010



I don't even know where to start.

Israel is now divided. Some people think Israel did the right thing. We got them, and we'll get them next time with a tougher, quicker response. There won't be so many injured people next time, if you know what I mean.

Others think this has been a disaster because the incompetent Bibi has led the soldiers into what has turned up to be a trap. Most of the people I know in Israel are probably in this group.

Horrified by the idea that protecting yourself from soldiers attacking you in international water could somehow be called a trap, a relatively small group of people is offended by these two opinions. Knowing this group of people exists has stopped me from canceling my Israeli passport this week. It has stopped me from speaking only English to my son. It has stopped me from feeling ashamed.

I'm not doing anyone a favor. I know I know.

But I used to be proud of my country. They had immigrated to a desert to create Utopia. It was a social economic philosophic spiritual Utopia. Israel's enemies, the Israeli Declaration of Independence says, were welcome to join Israel in shaping the future of the Middle East as the most prosperous land on Earth. The day those words were spoken in 1948, Israel's neighbors attacked. There was no doubt that we were the good guys.

Are we still the good guys? Leftists outside Israel have always seen Israel as the aggressor, but in Israel things were different, and it's simplistic to say it was because we had lived in a bubble of self-delusion. As a kid, I saw pieces of flesh and blood stuck to a tree in the main street of Tel Aviv, a day after a suicide bomber detonated his bomb in a busy intersection. A short time after that, the city put a monument near the crosswalk. There were so many suicide bombers after I left the country, that the government stopped putting up monuments. It just didn't make sense anymore. No matter how bad the situation was in Gaza, as long as the Palestinians were blowing up kids, we were the good guys.

Then things changed. Yes, the leaders of Hezbollah were religious nuts who didn't give a damn about their people's lives and about the lives of Lebanese or Palestinians, but the war in Lebanon proved Israel was no better. Israelis were not the good guys when they went into Gaza to release a kidnapped soldier and to stop the rockets. A lot of innocent people died, the rockets didn't stop, and the soldier is still in captivity. Hezbollah weren't the good guys and Hamas weren't the good guys. But neither was Israel.

How did the good guys end up killing aid workers?

Or as most Israelis refer to them: "aid workers." Hey, whatever soothes your conscience.

Who was this Turkish group organizing the trip? It really doesn't matter. Their provocative statements are used as an excuse by Israel: "Yes, we shot everything that moved, but look--they really REALLY hated us!" Israel is going to have to kill a lot more people if it wants to get rid of everyone who hates it.

An American citizen was shot in the face and in the back of his head. Five times at close range. They call it a Confirmed-Kill in the Israeli military. Not officially, though.

When asked if the fact that an American citizen was killed by the Israelis changed the President's reaction to the attack, Robert Gibbs said, "I don't want to go there." Why would he want to go there? Some Americans are worth more than others. This guy was a Turkish-American. That's pretty low on the Who-Gives-A-Damn Pole.

Unfriended three people on Facebook today. Couldn't deal with their ignorant hateful shit anymore.

One of them was actually going to a protest in front of the Turkish Embassy in Tel Aviv. Because it was the victims' fault. As usual.

During the Gaza offensive, Israeli troops fired indiscriminately into innocent people's houses while chasing alleged rocket launchers. What! It was their fault they died. Their houses were so close together!

All Arabs are the same to Bibi voters. Sure, some of them wear suits, some of them are doctors or politicians or architects or aid workers, but an Arab is an Arab. Why did the Israeli military shoot into random houses in Gaza? Because there's no such thing as an innocent Palestinian. Not everyone on the boat attacked them, but is there really a difference between an Arab aid worker and an Arab Hamas member?

That's how Bibi voters think. Ask them. They're not ashamed of these opinions.

Either I'm being a dumb optimist or I simply can't face the facts, but even as I can't see Israel as the good guys, I still can't think of this abstract Could-Have-Been-Utopian symbol as the bad guy. It's complicated, just as Israel itself is complicated. Bibi is an evil incompetent Napoleon who deserves to be placed in a town square, so that everyone in the Middle East would line up and spit on his face. But I still have faith.

There are still people who search for peace there. There are still people who look at the Flotilla attack and not think it was simply a strategic blunder, but a moral stain. These people are the reason I speak Hebrew to my boy. These people are the reason I'm still an Israeli. These people are the reason I feel anything when I read news coming from Israel, even if it is mostly despair.


Jill/Twipply Skwood said...

I don't know a whole lot about politics, but I've read/watched/listened to everything I can on this one.

I understand that yes Israel screwed up and I understand that there were better ways to have gotten out between the rock and the hard place.

I don't understand why the flotilla people are called aid workers or peace activists when from everything I've seen or heard (including the words directly from the interviewed flotilla people's mouths) it seems as if they wanted to provoke, not to promote peace or aid. I don't understand how that makes them peace activists.

As far as the good guys/bad guys thing, I don't think any country has a monopoly on those. It's like, if you only wanted to teach him the languages of countries where the best people could manage was always good enough, he'd have to be mute.

Please don't unfriend me on facebook. :-) :-) :-)

CaraBee said...

While I in no way condone the attack, I have to say that it feels like there is some gray in this argument. As Jill said, the aid workers do not seem to have been peaceful and non-aggressive. If anything, it sounds as though they were taunting the Israeli navy and were violent when approached. Which doesn't give the Israelis license to open fire, for sure, but changes the discussion a little.

I can't imagine living in the kind of fear that I imagine many (all?) Israelis to endure because of suicide bombers and such. I can only speculate that it changes your perspective and makes even the "good guys" from the other side look like bad ones and maybe a little quicker to jump to a response like this one.

People in the Sun said...

Jill, first of all, they were mostly aid workers. There were also people there looking for confrontation. I can't tell you each of the nine dead or the dozens injured was holding a metal pipe in his or her hands, but you don't know that either. My best guess is that it was chaotic, and shooting was indiscriminate. The way the Israeli government and military portray this as an ambush is unconscionable to me, though. I can't imagine anyone there--including the sling shooters and metal pipe holders--expected to die, or they would have brought guns instead of marbles.

You're right about other countries. It's just... it should have taken longer for the country to shift from Utopia to "We're not worse than Hamas." I grew up believing this stuff, you know? I grew up thinking we were better.

The three I unfriended went beyond "We support the troops," though. They were protesting in front of the Turkish Embassy, and linking to a video making fun of the way the dead people tricked the world, and how the media didn't show the real story. It's ironic that actually, the videos from the attack come either from the Israeli military or from edited videos confiscated from passengers, and yet the idiots complain that the media doesn't show "the real story." So, you know, I just couldn't see this crap anymore.

Cara, I agree it should change the discussion, but the fact that nine people are dead, including an American citizen, and the discussion is still about how many actual peaceful aid workers were there shows just how good the Israeli propaganda is. Context is everything, and I can't imagine any other country attacking a boat in international water, and the people who protect the boat end up being portrayed as violent aggressors.

I try very hard to look at both sides. My grandmother escaped the Nazis to end up grabbing her kids and running away from her house, up and down sand dunes to escape Palestinian snipers. My dad and his friends collected bullet casings in the sand dunes. That was their childhood game, you know? And I understand the mistrust, and I understand the appeal of someone like Bibi, who says he wants peace, but only if Israel is secure first. But it bothers me that in order to reach this momentary feeling of security, people have put their values aside. I mean, nine people are dead--that's more than years of Israeli dead from Hamas rockets--and the first thing you do is go to protest in front of the dead people's embassy?

SJ said...

The past can't be used to justify the present. Yes I agree Israel went through a lot but this incident at least from where I am seems like an atrocity committed by Israel. Shooting people who taunt/mock me? I would like that job!

SJ said...

And what if the taunters were from the minority of Israeli citizens? Would the military shoot it's own people then?

Jill/Twipply Skwood said...

You know, they didn't need to die, and they shouldn't have died. But I would be surprised, really and truly surprised if the people on the flotilla weren't completely aware that they were putting their lives in danger.

I keep hearing the word "ambush" from the other side - that the Israelis "ambushed" the flotilla. No matter who uses the word, in my mind it isn't appropriate. Ambush implies an element of surprise. To me, there couldn't have been any surprise on either side. The flotilla said, We're coming, Israel said Don't come. The flotilla said they were coming. Israel said we're going to use deadly force. I don't see how either side could claim to have been surprised.

I don't know what to say about the Utopia. I was raised that food companies would try and trick me into eating crap, that the United States was the best we've got at the moment but that the US had done wrong in the past and would probably do wrong again. But I see what you mean, that the loss of a Utopia you truly believed in would be a very bitter pill to swallow.

SJ - In my mind, it went beyond taunting & mocking. If someone decided they were going to fly in aid to the United States Appalachians without getting their flight approved and the US said, "You need to come in through an international airport" and they said, "No. We fly in where we want," even with no other threat, that wouldn't really go over. Maybe Israel is right or wrong to have the blockade there in the first place. I don't have the political savvy to have a strong opinion on that. But regardless, the US wouldn't have just said, "Awww you kidders! Go ahead and land wherever you want!"

SJ said...

Well the Appalachians don't have a problem with the US govt deciding on their behalf and the US govt is probably providing them some basic services (unless you ask one of the far-right libertarians).

Jill/Twipply Skwood said...

SJ - Maybe so. I don't know a lot about most things...I'm going to go fly some food to the Appalachians by boat here in a minute, and I'll let you know how it goes. :-) :-) :-) KIDDING! Please don't unfriend me on facebook!!!!!!!

I'm KIDDING on that too!!! You can unfriend me on facebook if you'd like. I can barely keep up with that whole facebook thing as it is...

People in the Sun said...

SJ, I agree that in general the past can't justify the present, but what you're talking about here is the real life-experience of people. Israelis learn to mistrust Palestinians because of suicide bombers, and Palestinians learn to mistrust Israelis because their entire contact with Israelis has been with soldiers who have humiliated them on a daily basis. This is why a sane dialog cannot happen without a mediator. I had high hopes for Obama, but other than nuanced differences between him and Bush, I can't see change.

But more to the point here, while it's true that there were more than taunts coming from the passengers, if the Israeli military killed 9 settlers after they fought back when the military tried to remove them, there would have been a civil war. As things are now, Israelis find it easy to justify the attack, because the dead are just Arabs.

Jill, now that's a good t-shirt, by the way: "Please don't unfriend me!"

I'm sure normal people can come to a middle ground here, between those who see Israel as the devil and those who see Israel as the guiding moral light for all other nations. Whether Israel had the right to board the boat is an issue of international law, and I heard different opinions about that (one professor said Israel had the right because they were at war with Gaza. But the boat was Turkish. And yesterday's boat was Irish. I'm not sure how that works). And it's always been obvious that this could have ended up bad. And it's clear that many of the passengers were looking for a violent confrontation (whether to humiliate Israel or in self-defense). For me, now that we pretty much know these facts, the only question is if nine people had to die. A nation that truly thinks of itself as a chosen people, can't say there wasn't a better way (strategically, but more importantly, morally).

Jason said...

Great post, as usual. You're totally goning to whup my ass in battle of the blogs.

My middle ground on Israel is a schoolyard analogy. I see Israel as the kid who got picked on day after day and then brought a gun to school.

The thing that's got me unfriending people is the Arizona immigration stuff.

People in the Sun said...

Jason, and then the kid boycotted the dead parents' stores with a "Look what you made me do" sign.

Just like I don't feel I'm doing anyone a favor by staying an Israeli, I'm not doing anyone a favor by being someone's Facebook friend. But I just couldn't take it anymore. When it comes to the AZ law, at least it's worthy of an argument. My guess is that the people you unfriended didn't post about the nuanced differences between the law as it is now and the law before it was changed (when the police could stop people for no reason), but about how the illegals were destroying the country. I wouldn't have been able to stand that too.

(And good luck in the BOTB!)

blues said...

Firstly, thanks for writing this and for sharing the personal side of things, especially the things you experienced when you were younger. I try to compare your situation to mine but in reality my feelings of patriotism when I was younger were vaguely centered around pledging allegiance, memorizing the preamble to the constitution in sign language in fourth grade, fireworks, being told to 'support the troops' in the 90s and botchy history lessons where the US was always saving the world. I've never experienced first hand a state enemy other than as something I saw in a far away land on the news and then shrugged off and went out for pizza.

But still, when I moved to Spain I felt like a kid discovering Santa Clause didn't exist. What?? We act like assholes a lot?? For reals??? How come that idea was never even, like, contemplated before?

It's hard to not be affected by the media on this issue. In Spain the media in general show atrocities towards Palestinians all the time. That affects how most Spaniards feel about Israel and it's role in peace and stability and inadvertently mine. It's hard to draw a different conclusion seeing that all the time.
But I know enough to know that's not the whole story - and outside of here things might look very differently.

Despite many times feeling like you, like I want to stay the fuck away, like I can not go back to people that don't want everyone in their country to be healthy, only the ones that can afford to, people who will go to war if you repeat to them enough times that they are in danger even if they are not, despite all that, I know there are Americans in the states that I truly love and miss, the ones that are not draped in flags that question their country's acts - the true patriots. And I feel such a deep sense of patriotism and love when I think of them and I will always always root for them.

SJ said...

Jill , I can't unfriend on facebook you never added me :( Please friend me first!

Pits, What I mean by the past/present comment is that the incident taken in isolation by itself is a bad thing to do.

SJ said...

OK I got a new t-shirt better thane even Jill's

Israel vs Palestine. No matter which side I choose I am with stupid.

Anonymous said...

when a soldier, even a good one if there is such a creature is attaqued by "peace activists" that want to kill him, he has the right to shoot in order to save his life by all laws. like Jill i think that no one can call them "peace activists" after seeing the pictures and i you think that Israel has released false pictrue dont you think that if the peace activists had different pictures they would have released them. see the real peace activists in the rachel corry, they obey to the order of the state that still are in war (even if the wall has stop momentarily the bombing), and the goods where achemined to gaza with no injuries

Jill/Twipply Skwood said...

Anonymous, unfortunately I think the reason that they don't have different pictures is because their cameras and things were confiscated as quickly as possible. At least, that's what the flotilla person I heard interviewed said. It's such a shame, truly a shame all the way around.

SJ - I can't even find the place where I didn't friend you! I'm still looking though...
Funny on the t-shirt. How humans can be so smart and so stupid all at the same time is truly, truly beyond me.

Blues - "people who will go to war if you repeat to them enough times that they are in danger even if they are not" - but that's just people, humans from any country. You tell people enough times that they're in danger and surely they start to believe it. And really, these days people get the "danger" message from ALL OVER. Here in Houston there are signs up on the freeway and notices in the newspaper warning us to be scared of hurricanes that don't yet exist. And then there are all the ads scaring us into buying stuff - "Buy our toothpaste or your breath will stink and all your friends will abandon you!!!!!! (or worse yet - unfriend you on facebook!!!!)" Maybe that IS particular to the US...who knows?!?!?

People - There's one thing that always I never understand. I think the Arab birth rate is higher and I think that Israeli Arab citizens can vote, is that right? I'm not even sure what I'm asking except that it seems like things are going to shift around at some point.

People in the Sun said...

Blues, I was sent a link to a booklet by Israeli leftists who call to return patriotism to its rightful owners. It's funny how I've come to detest anyone carrying a flag (of any country) just because I've allowed the Fascists to pretend they owned the rights to the flag. In the US, a group of ignorant racists calls itself Tea Party Patriots. In Israel, settlers wave the Israeli flag on top of ruined Palestinian villages. In Bibi's Israel (just like it had been in Bush's America), it's unacceptable to call yourself a patriot if you support the potential of the country rather than the destruction of that potential.

SJ, I know I know. The Israelis bring only excuses for the attack. As if "This group supports Hamas" is a reason to attack a boat in international water.

Anonymous, this just shows what a great job the Israelis do with the media. How come we see pictures of aid workers (sorry, "aid workers") attacking Israeli soldiers but not a picture of an American kid with five close-range bullets in his head? How come the Israeli government confiscated cameras and phones, releasing without permission only what fit its story from those cameras? Reuters is now under fire for not showing images of injured soldiers. But now that these pictures are online, do you feel you got the full picture? You have soldiers warning the boat, you have soldiers being attacked, and you have injured soldiers. I was listening to Israeli radio after the story came out, and people were panicked about the way Israel has lost control of the story. Looks like they're back in control. And the passengers on board the Rachel Corrie continued on their way to Gaza, but were stopped by Israeli soldiers who illegally boarded an Irish boat in international water.

Achemined is French for Routed. I had to look it up.

Jill, why aren't you friending SJ? What's wrong with you? Is it his mint-free breath?

I'm not sure about the Arab-Israeli voters. There aren't that many of them, and many of them boycott anything to do with the Israeli government. One of the Arab Knesset members was on one of the boats, and she's facing constant death threats, as well as being called a traitor by Israeli leaders. And even then, these are still Arab Israelis with a limited voice. Arab Palestinians are completely at the mercy of the Israeli government.

Jill/Twipply Skwood said...

I've never understand the whole Arab Knesset member being on board thing. That just totally, totally confuses me. Except when I think about it too long and get some tiny little flash of insight which I don't really understand. Then it depresses me.

Boycotting seems sort of counterproductive. I mean, I understand boycotts in terms of not paying money for stuff to prove a point, but not voting to prove a point only really gives an extra vote to someone else. I think. Or something.

Yes, definitely the mint-free breath. Anyone with mint-free breath is a friend-o-mine! It's my boycott against mouthwash companies who (as I was taught in 8th grade when I should have been learning patriotism, apparently) have scared us into inventing morning breath.

Anonymous said...

1. the arab israelis are member of the parlement in israel, and the arab people can vote not "with a limited voice" but with the same voice as men, women and jews.
2. you can see now the photos released by the turkish journalist, in spite of the fact that the prime minister ardogun dont want them to be released as we can see there that the peace activists have done a kind of pogrom to the israeli soldiers, please look at theese images
3. reuter is not under fire because he has not shown injured soldiers but because he made disapeared by magic the knife in the "peace activist"hand, they said they are sorry and put the right photo, please look at it.
4. after all, perhaps the best of all will be if "they go to hell and return to their previous countries" as declared by a great journalist Helen Thomas, and basta! please look

People in the Sun said...

Jill, I'm not sure what you mean with the Arab-Israeli Knesset member. She was on the boat for the same reason other activists for a free Gaza were there--to protest the Gaza lock up. Now she's accused of being a traitor because the Israeli narrative is that this was a terrorist boat. I mean, either this was a terrorist boat, or the Israeli military just killed nine protesters who defended their boat in international water.

Anon, 1. You think that if the Arab-Israeli population grows to have a bigger voice in the Knesset, they will be allowed to exercise their power? Do you think a powerful Arab minority, or even a majority would be allowed to exist? You can't really think that.

2. Don't forget to put quotation marks around "Peace activists"! Pogrom does bring back memories, doesn't it... The rest of the world sees that as an act of self-defense against pirates, but the Israeli bubble brings out images of the Jew as a victim every time it can't face the truth. Whatever helps you cope with forgetting you've become what you feared.

3. Just another excuse. Dozens of Turkish people were injured, at least 9 died, and you complain that you can't see enough wounded Israeli soldiers.

4. A 90-year-old woman says something dumb, immediately apologizes for what she says, and then resigns, and you bring it up here as if it proves anything? Ari Fleischer comes out after years of defending Bush atrocities, and complains that "as a Jew" he is very offended by Helen Thomas. Where was Fleischer when Rush Limbaugh, the leader of the Conservative movement, referred to feminists as Nazis? Where was Fleischer when Glenn Beck compared Jews who criticize Israel to Nazis? As a Jew, Fleischer wasn't offended by them? These comments weren't outrageous enough for him to leave his tanning bed? Again, you bring out four points that only prove mine. Everything is justified as long as enough excuses are brought up. Nine people died and Israelis boycott Turkey. God forbid Israel did something wrong. And look!!! A ninety-year-old woman said something really offensive, which proves the international pressure for Israel to live in peace with its neighbors just hides Antisemitism! The fact that the US gives money to a country that locks millions in ghettos is just an excuse for people to express their hatred for the Chosen People!

Ilene Haddad said...

Cousin- I am very proud of you for speaking your mind--I agree with you 100%, and it's not a popular opinion for an American Jew (or any Jew, for that matter). You know I'm married to a Syrian American, and I used to worry that might cause a rift between us, but it obviously has not. Love you.


Jill/Twipply Skwood said...

I think I'm confused, because forty one years of totally ignoring politics and then getting interested in just one story has made me that way.

But if she's a Knesset member and she's on a boat to protest the way Israel is treating Gaza and the Knesset decides how Israel treats Gaza (Does it? Doesn't it?), then isn't she really protesting herself?

And if she IS protesting herself, that's depressing, 'cause it sort of implies that even in a position of relative power, she still feels helpless to go about things another way. Otherwise, why would she risk her life like that?

And THAT reminds me of the thing they had on NPR yesterday about how depressed some people are about how much Obama is or isn't accomplishing. I imagine he's doing as much as he can within the boundaries of the system in which he's working, but maybe the bounds of the system are too much for both him and the Knesset woman.

PS - Now are you going to DOUBLE unfriend me? Once for the Knesset woman and once for lack of surprise at what Obama has or hasn't been able to accomplish?!? Or do I get to choose which one you unfriend me for? :-) :-) :-) I'm KIDDING of course! Because it wouldn't do not to take a stab at lightening the mood. I think I need to go back to ignoring politics...

People in the Sun said...

Ilene, thanks! (and Hi). I hope American Jews change their minds about Israel. There's this idea here that you either support anything the Israeli government does or you're a self-hating back-stabber. I believe if more Jews distanced themselves from this attack while continuing to call for peace, the White House will have to change its position. That's the only way peace will ever come to this area.

Jill, I'm still not sure... I mean, she's a Knesset member, but she's in the opposition. It's like a Democratic Congresswoman protesting the Iraq war during the Bush years. And I can't believe she thought she was risking her life. I don't think anyone (including the Israelis) thought the attack would end this way.

And how dare you say Obama achieved some things and not others??? How??? Dare??? You???

Mark said...

First of all, Hello from Ireland. And congratulations on a very well balanced piece.

It has been an interesting, if not a sad week in all things to do with the Israel/Palestinian conflict.

The general view here in Ireland is that the IDF got it wrong on all fronts and that Israel has a lot to answer for regarding the banning of so many item from Gaza. Including Chocolate, sweets and toys. Not to mention medical equipment/drugs.

No one in Ireland (except for some extremists) believe for 1 minute that Israel should not exist.
So why does it seem the world is against Israel.
We are not, simple as that,
however we are against the implementation of wars and block aids that cause death and malnutrition to the people and children of Gaza. Can you imagine how terrifying it must be to have fighter bombers flying about not knowing if the next bomb is coming through your window, and the noise of exploding bombs close by. This is not to take away from the terror inflicted by HAMAs on Israel. It is fear on both sides in equal measure.

This leads to extremism and is the best recruiting tool both sides have!

Only last night the main channel in Ireland ran a story with children (Age2 and 5) dying without even basic pain killers, let alone drugs to save their life with early intervention.

Also here and in most countries the belief is that HAMAs are wrong to be continually firing rockets etc into Israel. This is why it is deemed a terrorist organization.

I have been called anti seimitc (sp?)because I criticized Israel. How some believe their own propaganda! There have been many photos etc released by Israel but most if not all edited to show Israel in a good light. One such video was "Peace protesters attack helicopter" they were using anti aircraft catapults/slingshots while being boarded in an illegal fashion(some would argue this point) in International waters.

Also photos of some of the commandos being carried down stairs in a fashion that would look to some like they would be lynched, the photos left out were the ones where they were being given first aid and protection by the "terrorists".

We would all hope that like here in Ireland, after many years of terrorism on both sides that a peaceful solution would be found. There are some here in Ireland who still are gathering weapons of terror and this will last for many years. But now with both sides working to defeat them they are having some success.

I apologize if this is a little disjointed, it's been a long day! but I do hope you get an idea about how others feel.
There is a good (rugby) website here in Ireland that discusses both sides of the argument and might give an insight to what the general feeling in Ireland is.

God bless all, whoever your God happens to be......

SJ said...

What I found most interesting in Mark's comment is how some people will still be collecting weapons of terror. Yes there will always be some extremist faction on both sides ready to stir up trouble. And every time an incident like this happens it is used to stir up even more violence with a "I told you so" by some "leader".
If there is political will (and popular support) to find peace it's not really going to be that hard.

People in the Sun said...

Mark, thanks for the comment. It's true that for many Palestinians, the only Israeli they know are faceless pilots and foot soldiers. I was a soldier in Gaza and in Nablus, and there was never any attempt to "win hearts and minds." The same is true for Israelis. There's no trust on either side, because both believe the other side is only interested in continuing the conflict. There are many Israelis and Palestinians who work actively to bring peace, even if it is on people's-level rather than anything to do with politics. That's why the only solution has to come from the US. I hope Obama changes direction, because no progress means more blood shed on all sides.

SJ, the funny thing is that if you talk to most Bibi voters, even those who see Palestinians as nothing but back-stabbers, they will tell you they want peace with Palestine. So how come nothing happens? Because they believe Bibi when he says he will achieve peace only after achieving security. And people wanted to be secure, so they voted for Bibi, not realizing the man can only exist politically in a state of conflict.

Nanny Goats In Panties said...

I'm a little too ignorant about this story to really comment, other than I read your post and started to read the comments, but I'm too far behind on what actually happened in the first place. So forgive me for not participating here, but I still really liked your post and what you had to say - very eloquently said.

People in the Sun said...

NGIP, thank you! I do appreciate that.

Sebastien Millon said...

It's such a sad situation, when both sides have legitimate arguments, and yet are at such stalemates, it can really bring out the worst in people. Good people can do bad things. And vice versa. But the former happens more often than the latter.

Anonymous said...

You are way out on the wrong side of the issues -- "friends" like you Israel doesn't need. Apparently you simply refuse to "get" the concept of who the good and bad guys are. And pit bulls should be outlawed besides. They're the bad guys of the doggie world, just as the Islamists are the bad guys of the human world -- especially in regard to Israel.

People in the Sun said...

Sebastien, I think that recent video of dancing soldiers shows a lot of what's going on here. The world is shocked to see Israeli soldiers dancing because they've become such faceless figures of oppression, which makes the blind haters of Israel feel uncomfortable. And on the other hand, the video shows the way some Israelis are unaware of the suffering of Palestinians.

Anonymous, you forgot to say my kids were ugly.

Osvaldo said...

So forgive me for not participating here, but I still really liked your post and what you had to say, great post!

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